cornellcrawford said...
Part Two:
I would encourage you to look beyond what you know or have already learned about Biblical interpretation. You claim that you "know the Bible too well." That, my brother, is a really arrogant statement. To accept Scripture as inerrant without applying any investment of critical thinking insults any God who created life with any ounce of intelligence. God expects us to use our minds, and not to follow blindly, just because of the threat of "hell." Actually, I would argue that you are already in hell, as you are clearly quite miserable. Men and women spend their lives in rigorous academic study, pondering the nature of Scripture, its historical context, its cultural context, its poetry, its symbolism, and yes, its errors. You cannot study the Old and New testaments without proper references, mainly historical and cultural contexts to compare and delve into the nature and meaning of the texts. We're separated by thousands of years from the New Testament, and even longer from the Old Testament. Cultural norms from these ancient times no longer exists. Surely, you can't say that in today's society it's permissible to stone your children for disobedience or to condone slavery, as these practices were in the Old testament? If you can't and recognize these passages as no longer relevant to society, then why would you also cling to a scripture that seemingly condemns homosexuality?
My reply:
When I said I know the Bible "too well" - I did not mean that the way you are quoting me. I said I know it too well to believe that homosexuality is not a sin. Maybe a better way to say it would have been that I know it well enough to know that. Same as saying I know it too well to not know who Abraham was - so my friend, you are sort of taking my statement out of context, but I will not hold that against you. :-)
Some of the cultural and ceremonial laws in the Old Testament do not apply to us, and I don't understand the slavery stuff, but I do know a few things: what God calls an abomination means something serious, and he calls sex between the same gender an abomination. Also, the New Testament has a lot to say about homosexuality - and other sexual sins that were also condemned in the OT.
Romans 1:18-32 - notice verses 26-27, especially
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[c] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[d] unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 - notice it says some were like that, leaving the idea that people CAN change:
9 Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. 11 Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
I would like your reply on something, John, or anyone else who believes as you do - and I am not trying to be unkind here - God condemned incest, bestiality, homosexuality, and any sex outside of marriage - along with other sins - stealing, killing, etc - why did He supposedly change His mind on just homosexuality? I don't think you'd argue that bestiality and incest are wrong - and you may even go so far to say God condemns straight heterosexual sin outside of marriage, and adultery - so what is special about homosexuality that God changed His mind on it?
Here is my answer - He didn't change. What changed was society's acceptance of it. In turn, many churches and Christians have caved to that acceptance and accepted it also. The day could come that pedephilia is accepted - it is in some countries - does that make it right? Of course not. It is still wrong. Very wrong. Should the day come that it is ok in the US, will it be right? Of course not. The same with homosexuality. The Bible clearly states it is wrong, but due to pressure from the outspoken gay militant movement, too many Christians are saying the Bible was interpreted wrong, and all that stuff. So if it was, then what is wrong and right. I still believe that God had His hand on what is in the Bible, and He allowed what is in there to be in there, and yes, He says homosexuality is wrong. It isn't easy, in fact it is very hard, but it is wrong.
The thing is, I would be scared to death to bet my soul on the fact that you are right. If I am wrong, and manage to get straightened out with God, there is no harm or foul. But if I decided to swallow your theology and you are wrong...... I'd spend eternity in hell - and why? Because even though God plainly said it was wrong, I allowed public opinion and man's ideas sway me to go against what is there in black and white.
And might I add, my problems are not all tied to homosexuality and my struggle. I had issues long before I realized I was gay. Years of getting picked on in school, feeling no one liked me - it spilled over into my view of God. Even before the light came on and I realized I was gay, I was struggling to believe God loved me - and it had nothing to do with homosexuality/being gay. It had to do with a young boy being bullied, living a lonely childhood up through adulthood, never really having had friends, even being picked on by male cousins - that stuff still is with me, and yes, the gay stuff has added to it, but my view of God and my attempted relationship with Him has always been screwed up - long before I realized I was gay and began THAT struggle.
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