This is a hot topic, and one I have wanted to adress on my regular blog, but since I wanted to come at it from the view of someone who struggles with homosexuality, I couldn't very well do that on the blog where everyone knows who I am, so here I am doing it anonymously.
So, as someone who has not only struggled with homosexuality, but also lived the lifestyle for several years - not openly, but privately - what do I think of lifting the ban on "don't ask, don't tell"? Bad idea - very bad. Let me expound on that.....
If you are reading this and have common sense and morals, do you think it is a good idea for men and women to reside together in a barracks, close quarters, shower together - all that? Of course it isn't - so why put men attracted to men and women attracted to women in the same barracks and have them showering together.
If you are male, do you really want to be ogled by another man while you shower? A man who finds you attractive? And the same if you are a woman?
Let me be blunt here: as a guy who struggles with homosexuality and has had numerous sexual encounters...... shirtless guys who are in good shape are as much of a turn on and I have as much desire to look at them as a straight guy with an attractive barely dressed young lady. Or a naked one. If you are straight, could you honestly shower with an attractive/hot member of the opposite sex and not be affected by it? Not look, or want to look? Not become aroused by showering with a member of the opposite sex?
But you say, it isn't the same. Oh yes it is. If I had to daily shower with "hot studly" guys, I'd have major issues. If I were "out and proud", what inhibitions would I have? Not many.
Moving on, being a little more blunt - there are a lot of gay men who find men in a uniform hot and all the more desirable. There are tons of gay porn flicks made involving guys in military dress. I can see gay guys going into the military just to be around men in uniform.
Lawsuits. If they end the DADT, there will be inappropriate behavior and comments - and lawsuits will happen. Actual sexual harrassment and perceived.
Why do we want to open this door that will cause so much trouble? Politics. Unfortunately, Obama and too many in Congress don't care about the results of this action - they want votes and they want to make the people happy who put them in office.
I was reading a news story this morning where it is knocking the decision to let the military do a poll on this subject - why? Shouldn't the ones who will be directly affected by this action be allowed to have a voice? I think their opinion should matter most and be heard the most. Story here: http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/08599200307500;_ylt=AnKaI7_o4yWS5vWyeWH3xvYDwLAF;_ylu=X3oDMTM1NXFuZzgyBGFzc2V0A3RpbWUvMjAxMDA3MTIvMDg1OTkyMDAzMDc1MDAEY2NvZGUDbW9zdHBvcHVsYXIEY3BvcwM1BHBvcwM1BHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDZ2F5c2ludGhlbWls
Guys are more sexual than women, wanting it more often, etc - and when you have gay guys openly living with other guys who are openly gay, sex is going to happen - that is against the law in the military - there are so many ways this is a bad idea that I am sure I have touched the tip of the iceberg, but these were some of my thoughts.
Monday, July 12, 2010
Monday, July 5, 2010
My reply to John (cornellcrawford) part 1
In my last post back in May, I had some comments from a gentleman named John, user name, cornellcrawford. He disagrees with me, but was very kind in his remarks, so hopefully I can be as kind in my reply. He said I could email him, but cannot find a way to do so, so I will do so here and hope he reads it. I will do so in 4 parts, as his comments were. First will be his comment, then my reply:
cornellcrawford said...
Part One:
I read your blog, and wanted to comment on a few things. Please understand that what I say is out of concern and sincerity, and while it may be harsh, is no way laced with animosity or ridicule. I am a gay man who has struggled with organized religion since I realized I, too, was condemned by it. However, I have embraced a loving God who is greater than what mankind (namely, straight and self-loathing gay men) has decided that God to be.
I'm really puzzled as to why you would still cling to a dogma that clearly condemns you; if you really believe in a loving Creator, an omnipotent Being, then you must realize that this God is greater than what man has decided God to be. You cannot box God into a neat and well-defined personality, because it is an insult and quite arrogant to claim we are intelligent enough to really know Someone who created the universe. That, I believe, is the first step in recognizing or "fearing" the Lord.
cornellcrawford said...
Part One:
I read your blog, and wanted to comment on a few things. Please understand that what I say is out of concern and sincerity, and while it may be harsh, is no way laced with animosity or ridicule. I am a gay man who has struggled with organized religion since I realized I, too, was condemned by it. However, I have embraced a loving God who is greater than what mankind (namely, straight and self-loathing gay men) has decided that God to be.
I'm really puzzled as to why you would still cling to a dogma that clearly condemns you; if you really believe in a loving Creator, an omnipotent Being, then you must realize that this God is greater than what man has decided God to be. You cannot box God into a neat and well-defined personality, because it is an insult and quite arrogant to claim we are intelligent enough to really know Someone who created the universe. That, I believe, is the first step in recognizing or "fearing" the Lord.
My reply:
I agree with you on some of what you say. Indeed, God cannot be put into a neat little box, and too many people, myself included, are guilty of trying to do so - but that has nothing to do with homosexuality.
As for "clinging to a dogma that clearly condemns me" - I want to make it to Heaven, and to do so, I must obey God, and yes, I may be condemned by what is in the Bible, but I must live above my sin.
As to the other, I will get to it later, but I do believe the Bible says homosexuality is wrong, and that has nothing to do with organized religion. What the Bible says is true, no matter what organized religion says.
My reply to John (cornellcrawford) part 2
cornellcrawford said...
Part Two:
I would encourage you to look beyond what you know or have already learned about Biblical interpretation. You claim that you "know the Bible too well." That, my brother, is a really arrogant statement. To accept Scripture as inerrant without applying any investment of critical thinking insults any God who created life with any ounce of intelligence. God expects us to use our minds, and not to follow blindly, just because of the threat of "hell." Actually, I would argue that you are already in hell, as you are clearly quite miserable. Men and women spend their lives in rigorous academic study, pondering the nature of Scripture, its historical context, its cultural context, its poetry, its symbolism, and yes, its errors. You cannot study the Old and New testaments without proper references, mainly historical and cultural contexts to compare and delve into the nature and meaning of the texts. We're separated by thousands of years from the New Testament, and even longer from the Old Testament. Cultural norms from these ancient times no longer exists. Surely, you can't say that in today's society it's permissible to stone your children for disobedience or to condone slavery, as these practices were in the Old testament? If you can't and recognize these passages as no longer relevant to society, then why would you also cling to a scripture that seemingly condemns homosexuality?
My reply:
When I said I know the Bible "too well" - I did not mean that the way you are quoting me. I said I know it too well to believe that homosexuality is not a sin. Maybe a better way to say it would have been that I know it well enough to know that. Same as saying I know it too well to not know who Abraham was - so my friend, you are sort of taking my statement out of context, but I will not hold that against you. :-)
Some of the cultural and ceremonial laws in the Old Testament do not apply to us, and I don't understand the slavery stuff, but I do know a few things: what God calls an abomination means something serious, and he calls sex between the same gender an abomination. Also, the New Testament has a lot to say about homosexuality - and other sexual sins that were also condemned in the OT.
Romans 1:18-32 - notice verses 26-27, especially
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[c] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[d] unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 - notice it says some were like that, leaving the idea that people CAN change:
9 Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. 11 Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
I would like your reply on something, John, or anyone else who believes as you do - and I am not trying to be unkind here - God condemned incest, bestiality, homosexuality, and any sex outside of marriage - along with other sins - stealing, killing, etc - why did He supposedly change His mind on just homosexuality? I don't think you'd argue that bestiality and incest are wrong - and you may even go so far to say God condemns straight heterosexual sin outside of marriage, and adultery - so what is special about homosexuality that God changed His mind on it?
Here is my answer - He didn't change. What changed was society's acceptance of it. In turn, many churches and Christians have caved to that acceptance and accepted it also. The day could come that pedephilia is accepted - it is in some countries - does that make it right? Of course not. It is still wrong. Very wrong. Should the day come that it is ok in the US, will it be right? Of course not. The same with homosexuality. The Bible clearly states it is wrong, but due to pressure from the outspoken gay militant movement, too many Christians are saying the Bible was interpreted wrong, and all that stuff. So if it was, then what is wrong and right. I still believe that God had His hand on what is in the Bible, and He allowed what is in there to be in there, and yes, He says homosexuality is wrong. It isn't easy, in fact it is very hard, but it is wrong.
The thing is, I would be scared to death to bet my soul on the fact that you are right. If I am wrong, and manage to get straightened out with God, there is no harm or foul. But if I decided to swallow your theology and you are wrong...... I'd spend eternity in hell - and why? Because even though God plainly said it was wrong, I allowed public opinion and man's ideas sway me to go against what is there in black and white.
And might I add, my problems are not all tied to homosexuality and my struggle. I had issues long before I realized I was gay. Years of getting picked on in school, feeling no one liked me - it spilled over into my view of God. Even before the light came on and I realized I was gay, I was struggling to believe God loved me - and it had nothing to do with homosexuality/being gay. It had to do with a young boy being bullied, living a lonely childhood up through adulthood, never really having had friends, even being picked on by male cousins - that stuff still is with me, and yes, the gay stuff has added to it, but my view of God and my attempted relationship with Him has always been screwed up - long before I realized I was gay and began THAT struggle.
Part Two:
I would encourage you to look beyond what you know or have already learned about Biblical interpretation. You claim that you "know the Bible too well." That, my brother, is a really arrogant statement. To accept Scripture as inerrant without applying any investment of critical thinking insults any God who created life with any ounce of intelligence. God expects us to use our minds, and not to follow blindly, just because of the threat of "hell." Actually, I would argue that you are already in hell, as you are clearly quite miserable. Men and women spend their lives in rigorous academic study, pondering the nature of Scripture, its historical context, its cultural context, its poetry, its symbolism, and yes, its errors. You cannot study the Old and New testaments without proper references, mainly historical and cultural contexts to compare and delve into the nature and meaning of the texts. We're separated by thousands of years from the New Testament, and even longer from the Old Testament. Cultural norms from these ancient times no longer exists. Surely, you can't say that in today's society it's permissible to stone your children for disobedience or to condone slavery, as these practices were in the Old testament? If you can't and recognize these passages as no longer relevant to society, then why would you also cling to a scripture that seemingly condemns homosexuality?
My reply:
When I said I know the Bible "too well" - I did not mean that the way you are quoting me. I said I know it too well to believe that homosexuality is not a sin. Maybe a better way to say it would have been that I know it well enough to know that. Same as saying I know it too well to not know who Abraham was - so my friend, you are sort of taking my statement out of context, but I will not hold that against you. :-)
Some of the cultural and ceremonial laws in the Old Testament do not apply to us, and I don't understand the slavery stuff, but I do know a few things: what God calls an abomination means something serious, and he calls sex between the same gender an abomination. Also, the New Testament has a lot to say about homosexuality - and other sexual sins that were also condemned in the OT.
Romans 1:18-32 - notice verses 26-27, especially
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[c] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[d] unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 - notice it says some were like that, leaving the idea that people CAN change:
9 Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. 11 Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
I would like your reply on something, John, or anyone else who believes as you do - and I am not trying to be unkind here - God condemned incest, bestiality, homosexuality, and any sex outside of marriage - along with other sins - stealing, killing, etc - why did He supposedly change His mind on just homosexuality? I don't think you'd argue that bestiality and incest are wrong - and you may even go so far to say God condemns straight heterosexual sin outside of marriage, and adultery - so what is special about homosexuality that God changed His mind on it?
Here is my answer - He didn't change. What changed was society's acceptance of it. In turn, many churches and Christians have caved to that acceptance and accepted it also. The day could come that pedephilia is accepted - it is in some countries - does that make it right? Of course not. It is still wrong. Very wrong. Should the day come that it is ok in the US, will it be right? Of course not. The same with homosexuality. The Bible clearly states it is wrong, but due to pressure from the outspoken gay militant movement, too many Christians are saying the Bible was interpreted wrong, and all that stuff. So if it was, then what is wrong and right. I still believe that God had His hand on what is in the Bible, and He allowed what is in there to be in there, and yes, He says homosexuality is wrong. It isn't easy, in fact it is very hard, but it is wrong.
The thing is, I would be scared to death to bet my soul on the fact that you are right. If I am wrong, and manage to get straightened out with God, there is no harm or foul. But if I decided to swallow your theology and you are wrong...... I'd spend eternity in hell - and why? Because even though God plainly said it was wrong, I allowed public opinion and man's ideas sway me to go against what is there in black and white.
And might I add, my problems are not all tied to homosexuality and my struggle. I had issues long before I realized I was gay. Years of getting picked on in school, feeling no one liked me - it spilled over into my view of God. Even before the light came on and I realized I was gay, I was struggling to believe God loved me - and it had nothing to do with homosexuality/being gay. It had to do with a young boy being bullied, living a lonely childhood up through adulthood, never really having had friends, even being picked on by male cousins - that stuff still is with me, and yes, the gay stuff has added to it, but my view of God and my attempted relationship with Him has always been screwed up - long before I realized I was gay and began THAT struggle.
My reply to John (cornellcrawford) part 3
cornellcrawford said...
Part three:
Please, please consult exegeses that refute a fundamental application of Scripture. You will find there are very intelligent, God-fearing, open-minded, and critical essays that go beyond the surface of these passages in Leviticus and Romans to debate what the writers really meant. Historically, you will find that fundamentalism festers in an environment in which the society is largely uneducated, or is under the pressure of fear to keep control. Look beyond conservative, fundamental "experts;" most likely, if they have any sort of academic background, it is from a conservative institution that only reinforces itself with fundamental instructors.
Take the example of Jesus, himself. He challenged the fundamental nature of both the Pharisees and Sadduccees. He subverted the system--he didn't play by the "rules." He said "the Kingdom of God is within you." He came to free us from the Law. Part of that Law was a misunderstanding and shunning of homosexuality. Though it was obviously extant, the larger society could not understand it. Today, the American Psychological Association states it is not a disease, that it is natural (though it is in the minority), and cannot be changed. Just because homosexuality is not the majority doesn't automatically mean it's wrong. It's found in mammals as well. It's part of nature. I know, you may argue that that nature is wrong, but quite honestly, who are you to say it is? Do you have the qualifications in psychology or theology to assert such a claim, or is this just "something you know" based on years of exposure to an interpretation that is based on ignorance, judgment, and fear? Are you going to live the rest of your life miserable and bound and interpretation of scripture that makes you a second-class citizen?
My reply:
Just because those writers are out there, does not mean they are right. There are still a lot who say the opposite, and a lot of Christian Psychologists who say the opposite.
As for Jesus... He never contradicted the Old Testament. Much as been made of the fact that He never said anything about homosexuality. Possibly because it was not much of an issue in Israel - hence Paul addressing it instead - He also didn't address bestiality or incest - or other things the Bible clearly condemns, but I digress.
On to mammals. I love that argument - that other mammals/animals do it. I don't mean to be unkind, but that is a bad argument. Some also eat their young, and all mammals will have sex with any animal of their kind, whether it be their sibling or parent - so the animal/mammal argument does not carry over well, unless you're going to say incest is ok, since it occurs all of the time in animals - and far more than homosexual sex. Reminds me of a funny story - years ago - I was about 15, our neighbor girl, about 8 years old, got 2 kittens, a male and a female. I made the statement that in the near future, they would be having kittens. Her reaction - "oh, no! They are brother and sister!" - animals don't care.
And no, I have no psychological degree, but I can read - and I can read my Bible and see that it says sex between 2 men is wrong - a sin.
And by the way, Jesus did have a lot to say about lust - and there is a lot of lust in homosexuality.
Part three:
Please, please consult exegeses that refute a fundamental application of Scripture. You will find there are very intelligent, God-fearing, open-minded, and critical essays that go beyond the surface of these passages in Leviticus and Romans to debate what the writers really meant. Historically, you will find that fundamentalism festers in an environment in which the society is largely uneducated, or is under the pressure of fear to keep control. Look beyond conservative, fundamental "experts;" most likely, if they have any sort of academic background, it is from a conservative institution that only reinforces itself with fundamental instructors.
Take the example of Jesus, himself. He challenged the fundamental nature of both the Pharisees and Sadduccees. He subverted the system--he didn't play by the "rules." He said "the Kingdom of God is within you." He came to free us from the Law. Part of that Law was a misunderstanding and shunning of homosexuality. Though it was obviously extant, the larger society could not understand it. Today, the American Psychological Association states it is not a disease, that it is natural (though it is in the minority), and cannot be changed. Just because homosexuality is not the majority doesn't automatically mean it's wrong. It's found in mammals as well. It's part of nature. I know, you may argue that that nature is wrong, but quite honestly, who are you to say it is? Do you have the qualifications in psychology or theology to assert such a claim, or is this just "something you know" based on years of exposure to an interpretation that is based on ignorance, judgment, and fear? Are you going to live the rest of your life miserable and bound and interpretation of scripture that makes you a second-class citizen?
My reply:
Just because those writers are out there, does not mean they are right. There are still a lot who say the opposite, and a lot of Christian Psychologists who say the opposite.
As for Jesus... He never contradicted the Old Testament. Much as been made of the fact that He never said anything about homosexuality. Possibly because it was not much of an issue in Israel - hence Paul addressing it instead - He also didn't address bestiality or incest - or other things the Bible clearly condemns, but I digress.
On to mammals. I love that argument - that other mammals/animals do it. I don't mean to be unkind, but that is a bad argument. Some also eat their young, and all mammals will have sex with any animal of their kind, whether it be their sibling or parent - so the animal/mammal argument does not carry over well, unless you're going to say incest is ok, since it occurs all of the time in animals - and far more than homosexual sex. Reminds me of a funny story - years ago - I was about 15, our neighbor girl, about 8 years old, got 2 kittens, a male and a female. I made the statement that in the near future, they would be having kittens. Her reaction - "oh, no! They are brother and sister!" - animals don't care.
And no, I have no psychological degree, but I can read - and I can read my Bible and see that it says sex between 2 men is wrong - a sin.
And by the way, Jesus did have a lot to say about lust - and there is a lot of lust in homosexuality.
My reply to John (cornellcrawford) part 4
cornellcrawford said...
Part four:
This cannot happen overnight, but it can happen by taking small steps. Read, and most importantly, discuss. Find a church that is fully inclusive (gay accepting). Talk with ministers who have received their education from accredited, reputable institutions, not "Bible Colleges." Those places are the fast food of academia. Cheap and malnutritious. Talk with gay priests (my partner is a priest!). Talk with other men and women who are struggling, yet don't poison themselves with self-hatred. There is nothing sinful about positive thinking--surround yourself with people who think positively and love you for who you are--completely for who you are! See a therapist. I'm not sure how old you are, but don't waste any more of your life hating God and hating yourself. There is hope and forgiveness and love. Remember, you must be like a child to enter the kingdom--open, trusting, loving, curious, questioning, and most important--possess the instinct that when you fall down, you get back up.
I would love to hear your thoughts about this. It's a dialogue that isn't satisfied in one long post. Please feel free to email me. I wish you the very, very best. And, knowing your honest and painful struggle, I wish you were nearby, so we could be friends.
Best regards,
John
My reply:
I do thank you for your comments, and though I have no idea where you live - nor you where I live, I would be your friend. I'm not mad at what you said, you were very kind, though I disagree with most of it, and I do hope I have been as kind in my reply. If not, please forgive me.
I cannot endanger my soul by seeking out those who will approve of homosexuality and assure me that what I see in black and white is not true - but it was a kind suggestion, not meant to be mean - I know that.
I have read a lot about this issue - people who have been in the lifestyle and left it. I have attended an Exodus Conference, and was pleasantly surprised - you would be too - they are just trying to help people, and aren't evil and hateful - and do not throw out a magic cure - but that is beside the point. What I am trying to say is I might not be the smartest guy in the world, but this is something I have read a lot about, prayed a lot about, agonized a lot about - and believe beyond a shout of a doubt that it is wrong.
My current issues and struggles are not all about being gay - that enters into it of course. I am lonely, but having sex with countless anonymous males is not the answer, and that is where homosexuality has always taken me.
Anyway, if you read my replies, I thank you again, and am open to more dialogue, but I would say ahead of time that I could never believe as you do, and fear the results if I did. God bless.
Part four:
This cannot happen overnight, but it can happen by taking small steps. Read, and most importantly, discuss. Find a church that is fully inclusive (gay accepting). Talk with ministers who have received their education from accredited, reputable institutions, not "Bible Colleges." Those places are the fast food of academia. Cheap and malnutritious. Talk with gay priests (my partner is a priest!). Talk with other men and women who are struggling, yet don't poison themselves with self-hatred. There is nothing sinful about positive thinking--surround yourself with people who think positively and love you for who you are--completely for who you are! See a therapist. I'm not sure how old you are, but don't waste any more of your life hating God and hating yourself. There is hope and forgiveness and love. Remember, you must be like a child to enter the kingdom--open, trusting, loving, curious, questioning, and most important--possess the instinct that when you fall down, you get back up.
I would love to hear your thoughts about this. It's a dialogue that isn't satisfied in one long post. Please feel free to email me. I wish you the very, very best. And, knowing your honest and painful struggle, I wish you were nearby, so we could be friends.
Best regards,
John
My reply:
I do thank you for your comments, and though I have no idea where you live - nor you where I live, I would be your friend. I'm not mad at what you said, you were very kind, though I disagree with most of it, and I do hope I have been as kind in my reply. If not, please forgive me.
I cannot endanger my soul by seeking out those who will approve of homosexuality and assure me that what I see in black and white is not true - but it was a kind suggestion, not meant to be mean - I know that.
I have read a lot about this issue - people who have been in the lifestyle and left it. I have attended an Exodus Conference, and was pleasantly surprised - you would be too - they are just trying to help people, and aren't evil and hateful - and do not throw out a magic cure - but that is beside the point. What I am trying to say is I might not be the smartest guy in the world, but this is something I have read a lot about, prayed a lot about, agonized a lot about - and believe beyond a shout of a doubt that it is wrong.
My current issues and struggles are not all about being gay - that enters into it of course. I am lonely, but having sex with countless anonymous males is not the answer, and that is where homosexuality has always taken me.
Anyway, if you read my replies, I thank you again, and am open to more dialogue, but I would say ahead of time that I could never believe as you do, and fear the results if I did. God bless.
Sunday, May 16, 2010
The search for hope
It has been quite a while since I blogged on here. I can't even remember what I wrote, and I don't know if anyone has read what I wrote. Anyway, I have given up. Yep.
The last two years have been really hard. Moving back after a couple of years away, staying with family while I try to find a job that will let me get my own place again. Next month will mark two years back, and things have not improved.
Oh, I have a job now - finally - but only part time, and not enough to let me get my own place again.
My relationship with God has never been the best. I'm no expert, but getting picked on so much as a kid really screwed me up. I honestly felt no one liked me. That most likely influenced the spiritual, I don't know, but for whatever reason, I have never been able to completely believe God loves me. Oh, I'd try, and sometimes thought I believed it, but then something would happen, and that belief would puncture like a balloon.
Going along with that issue, I have never loved God. I hear people testify in church about how much they love Him, sang songs about loving Him - but I never have. So why have I tried to serve this God who I don't love, and never could quite believe loves me? Good question.
Looking back, I remember going to the altar many times during camp meetings and revivals - usually because of major conviction and/or scary stories told by preachers - stories about people who stood through such altar calls and did not go, only to be hurled out into eternity that very night or close after.
Also, my parents played a big part. They always wanted us kids to be Christians, and for years, my mom would ask me how I was doing spiritually - I'd always tell her good even if I was not trying to serve God - I didn't want lectures or more guilt/scare tactics - would I have gotten them? Most likely out of love, but still guilt and scare tactics.
I have to wonder if I ever served God out of anything more than a fear of going to hell and to make my parents happy. Well, I have had the desire to do what is right, so that has played into it, but is that enough? Have my efforts to be a Christian been doomed from the start because of my motives?
Unless you have been there, no one can truly understand the homosexual struggle - it has to be one of the worst struggles to have. I didn't ask for it, didn't "choose" it, even though there are deluded people would claim so - but I did give into it. Would my struggles be less intense had I never had that first sexual experience with another guy? Maybe, maybe not. I've had correspondance with several men who never have, and their struggle sounded as intense as mine.
Regardless, so many times in the last 20 years since I took that step, life has been a vicious cycle. Days, weeks, and sometimes months - of having as many sexual experiences as I could have, along with indulging in pornography - only to bow under the guilt and fear to ask forgiveness and try to stay on the "straight and narrow", only to crash after a few days, weeks, or months. It is possible that I wouldn't fall so easily if I loved God instead of fearing He would take my life while I strayed?
Some would say I have never been saved in the first place - but if all we have to do is ask forgiveness for sins, acknowledge we are a sinner, and believe - how could I not be? It doesn't say we have to believe He loves us - or is that part of it, and I have only fooled myself all these years? Could it be I was only trying to reform myself - putting a bandaid on it, so that is why I fell so easily?
At this point, life seems hopeless. I feel I have failed - as a man, as a Christian. I am so lonely, and long for love and a family of my own. I've gone back to the one night stands, and a big part of me wants to even find another guy who would love me and try for a gay relationship. It isn't all about sex - I just want someone to love me, do things with me, hold me - it may be a lack of faith, but that can never happen with a woman. And it can't with a man either - I'd never do that to my family, as badly as I want it.
I look at where I have come from, and look at the future, and it all looks so empty, hopeless, and lonely, no matter which way I look. I wish I could end it all, but the same things that have led me to try to serve God keep me from it - I firmly believe I'd drop straigh into hell - so anything here is better - and I'd never do that to my family. So I die inside a bit more every day wishing there was more. That I could be happy, complete, whole - and not lonely.
Church has failed me. I don't know what changed, me or church, but since I moved back, I feel disconnected from church, from my pastor. He has chatted with me a few times, but though he tried hard before to help me with my sexual and spiritual struggles, he hasn't dipped into it much, and it has been 5 months since he has asked how I am doing. It seems sad that I could be so discouraged, and in fact give up, and no one knows. Maybe they don't care.
I wish that the people were right who claim that God is ok with gay - but they aren't. I know the Bible too well, and I don't think the Bible could be much clearer on that - yet it doesn't seem fair. I didn't ask to be gay. I didn't want to be - I still don't want to be. I believe a combination of things caused me to have these feelings - so is it fair that I live a lonely and celibate life because life beat me up?
This might sound crass, but if God were truly the merciful God He claims to be, He would allow us all a look at what our life would be like before we were born, and offer us the choice to be born or not - that would be merciful. I know what I'd have picked - no thank you.
Serving God shouldn't be so hard. Life shouldn't be so hard. Oh, I've heard all the songs and Christian talk - Heaven will be worth it all, we aren't living for this life, etc - so if things can't be hunky dory down here, and we are living for Heaven, then why doesn't He just take us there when we decide life here isn't what we want?
As I end this post, if you are reading this - I am not going to kill myself - let me be clear. Wishing we could do something doesn't mean we will - there are people who have hurt me that I wish I could hurt badly, but never will - for I wouldn't like the consequences - same with harming myself. I loathe myself, but I'm stuck here until God decides I'm done - I just hope when He chooses to do that, that I am somehow ready to die, so I go to the right place.
The last two years have been really hard. Moving back after a couple of years away, staying with family while I try to find a job that will let me get my own place again. Next month will mark two years back, and things have not improved.
Oh, I have a job now - finally - but only part time, and not enough to let me get my own place again.
My relationship with God has never been the best. I'm no expert, but getting picked on so much as a kid really screwed me up. I honestly felt no one liked me. That most likely influenced the spiritual, I don't know, but for whatever reason, I have never been able to completely believe God loves me. Oh, I'd try, and sometimes thought I believed it, but then something would happen, and that belief would puncture like a balloon.
Going along with that issue, I have never loved God. I hear people testify in church about how much they love Him, sang songs about loving Him - but I never have. So why have I tried to serve this God who I don't love, and never could quite believe loves me? Good question.
Looking back, I remember going to the altar many times during camp meetings and revivals - usually because of major conviction and/or scary stories told by preachers - stories about people who stood through such altar calls and did not go, only to be hurled out into eternity that very night or close after.
Also, my parents played a big part. They always wanted us kids to be Christians, and for years, my mom would ask me how I was doing spiritually - I'd always tell her good even if I was not trying to serve God - I didn't want lectures or more guilt/scare tactics - would I have gotten them? Most likely out of love, but still guilt and scare tactics.
I have to wonder if I ever served God out of anything more than a fear of going to hell and to make my parents happy. Well, I have had the desire to do what is right, so that has played into it, but is that enough? Have my efforts to be a Christian been doomed from the start because of my motives?
Unless you have been there, no one can truly understand the homosexual struggle - it has to be one of the worst struggles to have. I didn't ask for it, didn't "choose" it, even though there are deluded people would claim so - but I did give into it. Would my struggles be less intense had I never had that first sexual experience with another guy? Maybe, maybe not. I've had correspondance with several men who never have, and their struggle sounded as intense as mine.
Regardless, so many times in the last 20 years since I took that step, life has been a vicious cycle. Days, weeks, and sometimes months - of having as many sexual experiences as I could have, along with indulging in pornography - only to bow under the guilt and fear to ask forgiveness and try to stay on the "straight and narrow", only to crash after a few days, weeks, or months. It is possible that I wouldn't fall so easily if I loved God instead of fearing He would take my life while I strayed?
Some would say I have never been saved in the first place - but if all we have to do is ask forgiveness for sins, acknowledge we are a sinner, and believe - how could I not be? It doesn't say we have to believe He loves us - or is that part of it, and I have only fooled myself all these years? Could it be I was only trying to reform myself - putting a bandaid on it, so that is why I fell so easily?
At this point, life seems hopeless. I feel I have failed - as a man, as a Christian. I am so lonely, and long for love and a family of my own. I've gone back to the one night stands, and a big part of me wants to even find another guy who would love me and try for a gay relationship. It isn't all about sex - I just want someone to love me, do things with me, hold me - it may be a lack of faith, but that can never happen with a woman. And it can't with a man either - I'd never do that to my family, as badly as I want it.
I look at where I have come from, and look at the future, and it all looks so empty, hopeless, and lonely, no matter which way I look. I wish I could end it all, but the same things that have led me to try to serve God keep me from it - I firmly believe I'd drop straigh into hell - so anything here is better - and I'd never do that to my family. So I die inside a bit more every day wishing there was more. That I could be happy, complete, whole - and not lonely.
Church has failed me. I don't know what changed, me or church, but since I moved back, I feel disconnected from church, from my pastor. He has chatted with me a few times, but though he tried hard before to help me with my sexual and spiritual struggles, he hasn't dipped into it much, and it has been 5 months since he has asked how I am doing. It seems sad that I could be so discouraged, and in fact give up, and no one knows. Maybe they don't care.
I wish that the people were right who claim that God is ok with gay - but they aren't. I know the Bible too well, and I don't think the Bible could be much clearer on that - yet it doesn't seem fair. I didn't ask to be gay. I didn't want to be - I still don't want to be. I believe a combination of things caused me to have these feelings - so is it fair that I live a lonely and celibate life because life beat me up?
This might sound crass, but if God were truly the merciful God He claims to be, He would allow us all a look at what our life would be like before we were born, and offer us the choice to be born or not - that would be merciful. I know what I'd have picked - no thank you.
Serving God shouldn't be so hard. Life shouldn't be so hard. Oh, I've heard all the songs and Christian talk - Heaven will be worth it all, we aren't living for this life, etc - so if things can't be hunky dory down here, and we are living for Heaven, then why doesn't He just take us there when we decide life here isn't what we want?
As I end this post, if you are reading this - I am not going to kill myself - let me be clear. Wishing we could do something doesn't mean we will - there are people who have hurt me that I wish I could hurt badly, but never will - for I wouldn't like the consequences - same with harming myself. I loathe myself, but I'm stuck here until God decides I'm done - I just hope when He chooses to do that, that I am somehow ready to die, so I go to the right place.
Saturday, January 2, 2010
2009 In Review
Wow, August is the last that I blogged on here. There is a reason for that. I created this blog so that I could anonymously talk about the struggle of a Christian dealing with same-sex attractions. To be honest, I have given up. I had some thoughts I wanted to throw out, so I figured this was the best place, since no one may read them anyway.
I fear I made a mistake. In August of 2006, I moved 400 miles away. I wanted a change of scenery, and had become really good friends with a guy close my age and of similar religious backgrounds. He and I shared an apartment for 2 years, and it went great. Oh we had our squabbles, but overall, got along great. I never had someone to hang out with to that extent before, and my sexual struggles, though not non-existent, were at a low ebb.
Unfortunately, I did miss my family and was not able to get back as often as I wished. They disapproved of my move - it was really the first time as an adult that I ever stepped out and did what I wanted that was contrary to my family's wishes. To top it all off, my mom went into depression, and I blamed myself. So in June of 2008, I moved back. Having no job to go to, no money for an apartment, I put my stuff in storage and moved into my parents' basement. The time since then has not been too great, but 2009 in particular has been bad.
I think I could call this the year of regression. I feel like I have regressed in about every way possible:
Sexually - I fell back into pornography and anonymous sexual encounters.
Spiritually - I have struggled with believing God loves me for all my life, and have fallen back to the point that I don't believe it at all. I have no faith, no hope.
Emotionally - I grew up thinking no one liked me, no one loved me. In the last several months, I have found myself questioning if anyone does like me.
I have finally admitted I am suffering from depression - and since hitting 40 this year, think I am also having a mid-life crisis - I did some reading up on it, and it fits.
I am still unemployed, and have had to borrow money from my parents to pay some bills - something that depresses me more, as I am becoming more and more dependent on them, instead of independent.
One good thing - due to my emotional state, mid-life crisis, and depression - my sex drive is about non-existent - so there has been no anonymous encounters for a long time.
I am tired of going to church, but my family is the type that if I admitted I had given up, they would hound me, preach at me, etc - and I don't need that. So, to keep peace, I march myself off to every service, though I find myself tuning out the service, and most of the time couldn't tell you what the message was about, what songs we sung - nada.
I look at the future lying in front of me, and don't want to do it. On a daily basis, several times a day, I find myself wishing I could just die - that I could kill myself. I envision myself hanging myself, stabbing a knife into my chest, slitting my wrist........ but I could never do it. I was raised to believe that suicide is murder, and I would most likely drop straight into hell if I did it - something I would never be willing to stake my soul on to try - plus, I have seen the effects of it on families - I could never do that to mine. I am not the smartest tool in the shed, but I know suicide is not the answer.
The job situation drives me crazy. It just seems no one will hire me.
I'm lonely. I have no one to hang out with, other than my parents. I wish I could marry and have a family - I find myself crying because I want kids, a normal life - yet there is too much to overcome - even if I could get to the point that I could perform sexually with a woman - an impossibility, I believe - I could never believe that someone could love me enough to marry me. I even question my best friend, wondering at times if the only time he is my best friend is because he can't find anyone else - I have viewed myself as unlovable, un-likeable for so many years, I couldn't pull a marriage off for that reason alone, sexual issues aside.
We read and hear of people who become disillusioned of the religion they are in, and they turn to Christianity. But what happens when a Christian becomes disillusioned in his faith. Disillusioned of God Himself? I fear I am there.
As far back as I can remember, I struggled to believe anyone loved or liked me. I guess it would make sense that it would carry over to God. I grew up knowing what was right - and wanting to do it, but many is the time I went to the altar because the preacher told enough scary stories during the altar call that I was scared not to go - never did I go to the altar because there was a loving God waiting there to forgive.
Since I struggled to believe God loves me, I guess it makes sense that I struggle to love Him. Maybe I am doomed - my entire Christian life has been lived because I wanted to do right and wanted to make it to Heaven - but how does one get past a lifetime of struggles that I have had? Is it possible to make it to Heaven never quite believing that God loves me, never feeling that I love Him? Is there any sense in trying? Can a person be so screwed up that they are beyond hope?
I have been up and down a lot spiritually in my life - times that I lived my secret life of sex and porn, then I'd grow sick of it, feel guilty, and want something more - so I'd ask God to forgive me, and try to live for Him, only falling back to it after a few months, weeks, or even days. I find myself wondering if the reason I fall so easily is because I am doing it for the wrong reasons - serving God because it is the right thing to do, and I want to go to Heaven - not because I love Him and He loves me.
It shouldn't be so hard. I know God is perfect and all that, yet it seems He has never done much to help me. Satan fights hard, yet it seems God sits back and watches me as I go down for the third and last time, as He sits on the edge of the water drinking an iced tea, watching with detached interest.
I have read many stories, heard many testimonies - of how God miraculously worked in people's lives - I can't point to anything like that. I admit I am slow to ask for help, but there have been many times I have been so far from God, so deeply entrenched in the homosexual quicksand that I begged God to send help - nothing ever happened. Even now, I march into church, a different person than I used to be, and no one seems to notice how depressed I am. That I never, ever testify or participate in the service - either no one cares, or no one notices. I find myself mocking the idea of the family of God - I go to church with 200 people who seem oblivious to the pain I'm in, that someone in their own midst thinks that life is not worth living, and feels like he is dying inside.
My best friend has a lot of things to say when I do question God, yet I find myself wondering if God is so great, then why do humans have to defend Him? Why are there so many books explaining why God lets His people fall, doubt - while He sits back and lets them go through hell? Is this concept of faith so important to Him that He would rather let people throw up their hands and give up, than to extend some hope, a helping hand? And why does He seem to work in miraculous ways to help some, and not others?
God says much about Him being our father and all that - yet if an earthly father acted in ways He does, would we not question our earthly father's love? If I had a kid in the shape I am in, I'd do all in my power to help him - yet God sits back and waits for us to just "have faith".
I could never be an atheist, but I do find myself wondering if we are right. What if our God isn't any different than the other gods. What if we are serving someone who doesn't even exist?
I feel like I have failed in every way. I had to file bankruptcy this year. I am living with my parents, jobless. I am 40, unmarried and most likely will be alone for the rest of my life. I can't seem to grasp a hold of God enough to truly live a Christian life and have a real relationship with him. I feel that even though I am trying to make my family happy, that I am just a disappointment to them.
I have had some opportunities over the years where I met gay men who wanted to have a relationship with me - and I find myself now wondering, would life be any worse if I had gone for it? Tried to have love - I don't know. Surely it couldn't be any worse than what I am now living.
This post may sound like a "poor me" post, and maybe it is - but life does look so hopeless, empty, lonely, that I just don't have hope any more, and wish I could truly get my heart right with God, then He could take me home.
Maybe more on this later
I fear I made a mistake. In August of 2006, I moved 400 miles away. I wanted a change of scenery, and had become really good friends with a guy close my age and of similar religious backgrounds. He and I shared an apartment for 2 years, and it went great. Oh we had our squabbles, but overall, got along great. I never had someone to hang out with to that extent before, and my sexual struggles, though not non-existent, were at a low ebb.
Unfortunately, I did miss my family and was not able to get back as often as I wished. They disapproved of my move - it was really the first time as an adult that I ever stepped out and did what I wanted that was contrary to my family's wishes. To top it all off, my mom went into depression, and I blamed myself. So in June of 2008, I moved back. Having no job to go to, no money for an apartment, I put my stuff in storage and moved into my parents' basement. The time since then has not been too great, but 2009 in particular has been bad.
I think I could call this the year of regression. I feel like I have regressed in about every way possible:
Sexually - I fell back into pornography and anonymous sexual encounters.
Spiritually - I have struggled with believing God loves me for all my life, and have fallen back to the point that I don't believe it at all. I have no faith, no hope.
Emotionally - I grew up thinking no one liked me, no one loved me. In the last several months, I have found myself questioning if anyone does like me.
I have finally admitted I am suffering from depression - and since hitting 40 this year, think I am also having a mid-life crisis - I did some reading up on it, and it fits.
I am still unemployed, and have had to borrow money from my parents to pay some bills - something that depresses me more, as I am becoming more and more dependent on them, instead of independent.
One good thing - due to my emotional state, mid-life crisis, and depression - my sex drive is about non-existent - so there has been no anonymous encounters for a long time.
I am tired of going to church, but my family is the type that if I admitted I had given up, they would hound me, preach at me, etc - and I don't need that. So, to keep peace, I march myself off to every service, though I find myself tuning out the service, and most of the time couldn't tell you what the message was about, what songs we sung - nada.
I look at the future lying in front of me, and don't want to do it. On a daily basis, several times a day, I find myself wishing I could just die - that I could kill myself. I envision myself hanging myself, stabbing a knife into my chest, slitting my wrist........ but I could never do it. I was raised to believe that suicide is murder, and I would most likely drop straight into hell if I did it - something I would never be willing to stake my soul on to try - plus, I have seen the effects of it on families - I could never do that to mine. I am not the smartest tool in the shed, but I know suicide is not the answer.
The job situation drives me crazy. It just seems no one will hire me.
I'm lonely. I have no one to hang out with, other than my parents. I wish I could marry and have a family - I find myself crying because I want kids, a normal life - yet there is too much to overcome - even if I could get to the point that I could perform sexually with a woman - an impossibility, I believe - I could never believe that someone could love me enough to marry me. I even question my best friend, wondering at times if the only time he is my best friend is because he can't find anyone else - I have viewed myself as unlovable, un-likeable for so many years, I couldn't pull a marriage off for that reason alone, sexual issues aside.
We read and hear of people who become disillusioned of the religion they are in, and they turn to Christianity. But what happens when a Christian becomes disillusioned in his faith. Disillusioned of God Himself? I fear I am there.
As far back as I can remember, I struggled to believe anyone loved or liked me. I guess it would make sense that it would carry over to God. I grew up knowing what was right - and wanting to do it, but many is the time I went to the altar because the preacher told enough scary stories during the altar call that I was scared not to go - never did I go to the altar because there was a loving God waiting there to forgive.
Since I struggled to believe God loves me, I guess it makes sense that I struggle to love Him. Maybe I am doomed - my entire Christian life has been lived because I wanted to do right and wanted to make it to Heaven - but how does one get past a lifetime of struggles that I have had? Is it possible to make it to Heaven never quite believing that God loves me, never feeling that I love Him? Is there any sense in trying? Can a person be so screwed up that they are beyond hope?
I have been up and down a lot spiritually in my life - times that I lived my secret life of sex and porn, then I'd grow sick of it, feel guilty, and want something more - so I'd ask God to forgive me, and try to live for Him, only falling back to it after a few months, weeks, or even days. I find myself wondering if the reason I fall so easily is because I am doing it for the wrong reasons - serving God because it is the right thing to do, and I want to go to Heaven - not because I love Him and He loves me.
It shouldn't be so hard. I know God is perfect and all that, yet it seems He has never done much to help me. Satan fights hard, yet it seems God sits back and watches me as I go down for the third and last time, as He sits on the edge of the water drinking an iced tea, watching with detached interest.
I have read many stories, heard many testimonies - of how God miraculously worked in people's lives - I can't point to anything like that. I admit I am slow to ask for help, but there have been many times I have been so far from God, so deeply entrenched in the homosexual quicksand that I begged God to send help - nothing ever happened. Even now, I march into church, a different person than I used to be, and no one seems to notice how depressed I am. That I never, ever testify or participate in the service - either no one cares, or no one notices. I find myself mocking the idea of the family of God - I go to church with 200 people who seem oblivious to the pain I'm in, that someone in their own midst thinks that life is not worth living, and feels like he is dying inside.
My best friend has a lot of things to say when I do question God, yet I find myself wondering if God is so great, then why do humans have to defend Him? Why are there so many books explaining why God lets His people fall, doubt - while He sits back and lets them go through hell? Is this concept of faith so important to Him that He would rather let people throw up their hands and give up, than to extend some hope, a helping hand? And why does He seem to work in miraculous ways to help some, and not others?
God says much about Him being our father and all that - yet if an earthly father acted in ways He does, would we not question our earthly father's love? If I had a kid in the shape I am in, I'd do all in my power to help him - yet God sits back and waits for us to just "have faith".
I could never be an atheist, but I do find myself wondering if we are right. What if our God isn't any different than the other gods. What if we are serving someone who doesn't even exist?
I feel like I have failed in every way. I had to file bankruptcy this year. I am living with my parents, jobless. I am 40, unmarried and most likely will be alone for the rest of my life. I can't seem to grasp a hold of God enough to truly live a Christian life and have a real relationship with him. I feel that even though I am trying to make my family happy, that I am just a disappointment to them.
I have had some opportunities over the years where I met gay men who wanted to have a relationship with me - and I find myself now wondering, would life be any worse if I had gone for it? Tried to have love - I don't know. Surely it couldn't be any worse than what I am now living.
This post may sound like a "poor me" post, and maybe it is - but life does look so hopeless, empty, lonely, that I just don't have hope any more, and wish I could truly get my heart right with God, then He could take me home.
Maybe more on this later
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